Re: Dedicated Halo 5 Thread

[TheAandZ]

He makes stronger and more intelligent points than you.
You can't hate someone because he criticises 343, especially if his points are valid.

RMT makes good points too. The issue is that both BDobbins and RMT just constantly reiterate that point which turns people off from their opinions.

What ends up is people thinking of them like this (which is true in many ways):
"durr durr MCC should have been gud durr durr"
"343 is gonna make H5 the best ting evur, u just watch I tell u"

This makes it seem like all BDobbins does is hate on 343 and it makes RMT seem like a 343 fanboy.

[Mootjuh]

Favyn is better anyway.

[Neesy]

I'd rather play CoD4 than Halo at this point...

[SilentGamer64]

Favyn is better anyway.

It's because his focus is mainly on Halo. bdobbins' coverage is more broad, since he talks about COD, Halo, Battlefield and a little bit of Destiny.

[Heatguts]

Sometimes I feel BDobbins is a little quick to hate 343, but he does make a lot of good points. It seems to me he spends a lot of his videos talking about 343, and for the other franchises their respective publishers/developers. I feel like there might be some other explanations that just don't occur to people. Favyn seems less concerned with 343 and more with the current Halo 5 product. He seems to spend most of his videos arguing mechanics and comparing with previous games and talking about og halo vs 343's halo aka "modern halo". I think he makes a lot of good points too.

[RockMetal&Time]

I'd rather play CoD4 than Halo at this point...

[Mootjuh]

He is right though, and Halo 5 can be called heresy in itself.

Also, you have to consider back when bdobbins made the videos 343 still had the time to pull a 180 and revert everything back to traditional. But now it's already too late for Halo 5, you see that favyn made his videos not too long ago and you see Bdobbins much less excited in his videos. Because there is no need to rush because Halo 5 is gonna be what it is nomatter what he says now anyway.

Really all we can do is hope that Halo 5 will make them reqlise that they are supposed to make a Halo game and not some frankenstein CoD and Halo mix. But who knows it might be too late by then and Halo 6 gets cancelled? I wouldn't be surprised.

[Neesy]

I'd rather play CoD4 than Halo at this point...

You can have a go at me but atleast CoD4 is a barebones good shooter with solid mechanics that work within the game. A better game objectively than Halo 4 and Reach.

[TheAandZ]

Every CoD I've played up to this point is extremely boring. TTK is always so small it basically ends up like the first person to see the other wins (if they can aim that is). From what I played in the BO3 free weekend, it's only difference is more parkour. Mobility is fun and all, but there is no point if you die when you're seen first.

I agree that H5 is drastically different to the traditional Halo style, but saying CoD is better is reeaaaallly stretching it.

The only thing CoD is objectively better at than Halo is that it stays closer towards it's original formula.

[Mootjuh]

What you stated there is pure preference, but even if you don't like it, CoD is a game with solid mechanics that works well for the gameplay its aiming for. So good other games try to copy its mechanics. Aka Halo 5.

[P3]

Here is what I have to say about what people who disagrees with sprint says.

What I hear the people who don't like sprint say.

"Oh meh gurd. Sprint sux because OG Halo didn't have it."

"My kill will get away! I will have to chase him, but I will get killt if I follow him into a crowd of his team!"

"Maps r two big now cuz they design around sprint so then the argument of sprint fanboys saying it is to get to places faster are just illusionz!"

"I can't shoot them becuz they moving too fast."

"It's nut balancing gamplay!"

There may be more, but those are the main I think.
Here is what I have to say about those arguments though.

1. OG Halo didn't have deployable equipment, recharging health, nor duel wielding like how the people who are comparing newer Halo's to Halo 2-3. (Yes I know Halo 2 does not have deployable equipment, but it does have the other stuff.) Which I see to be a whole lot more cheap then sprint.
For one, getting shot from all over, deploy bubble shield, bam. Whole area within the shield is safe from most attacks ect. And then there are the other equipments too.
Recharging health... "Oh mi god. He hid behind a rock for literally a few seconds and all the damage I just did is gone! He was almost dead. Now he just had a chance to get a quad kill and do a 360 no scope headshot on me! He waz mi killz!"
And then duel wielding. Halo 1 worked perfectly fine without it. I don't see people going batshit crazy about how unbalance or unfair it is going against someone who isn't duel wielding, if you put it in that mind set.

2. So what if your kill is running away? Who told you to stop shooting and run after him. He's not defending or attacking you anymore, his shields are not recharging while he is running. Keep shooting and kick his ***. If you die because you blindly run after him into a crowed of enemies, that is your fault. If you are afraid of someone taking your kill, that has about the same chance of happening either way, so deal with it.

3. There are a lot of maps in OG Halo that are pretty fucking big, and should have had sprint for them. Heck those maps are probably way bigger then the maps that are supposedly so big now because they are designed for sprint. Some examples are these maps from Halo 1.
Infinity
Gephyrophobia
Sidewinder
Bloodgulch
Danger Canyon
Ice fields
Death Island
I'm sure that some of these maps are probably bigger and would have felt even more bigger if they weren't mostly so open. Complexity and business is the true illusion to size. ;)

4. They really are not moving all that much faster... -_- Git gud or git rekt.

5. It is pretty balanced. Everyone has it at all times, and it does the same basic thing that eveyone else's do. It doesn't change gameplay up that badly. It's just like being able to jump. Should we remove jumping from the game because people can jump over some walls, obstacle, get to higher grounds, skip pathways, or simply getting away when you are shooting at them, or sniping them? Because jumping that high is a pretty big game changer.

And also, how is Halo becoming a frankenstein Call of Duty...?
>.>
You can probably say that more about Halo 4 multiplayer, but not really 5.

Edit: By the way, when I say OG I mean original or traditional. Which I only count Halo 1 as. Anything else I do not count.

[P3]

Also, just because they didn't design maps with sprinting in mind, does not mean it won't play well... I played Halo Online Valhalla (which is essentially Halo 3 Valhalla) and sprint fit right in with the map and gameplay.

[Mootjuh]

Because base speed is lowered.

1. People never said innovation was bad, but it has to be done right. It was good up to Halo 3 which more added to the sandbox than force one feature in and change everything around it to make that one feature work. And it's especially bad when you steal mechanics from another shooter that doesn't even resemble Halo. Aka CoD4(which introduced sprint). So it still has some mechanics from Halo like the slower kill times(to some extent) but has sprint and ads from CoD. Which means it has mechanics from its predecessor and mechanics from another game which were never meant to be in Halo as the mechanics don't work with it. You have to change Halo's mechanics in order for Sprint to work. Hence why people say Reach had the worst maps since it didn't account for sprint because not everyone could sprint. So yes, taking 2 games and mixing them badly makes a Frankenstein's game.

2. Who says his shields are down? Who says he can not possibly get away when using sprint? Face it, if your speed is higher you can escape easily. Nobody cares if your shields don't recharge, even without sorint shields usually recharge after the engagement is over. Therefore it wouldn't matter if the guy's shields are still down because by the time the attacker catches up with him he is either halfway full or full ready to ambush him or has regrouped with his team. Therefore the attacker lost his kill while he clearly showed he was the better player in the BR fight. How is it fair when you get the upper hand and once he runs you can't possibly take him down? Before you can land your next shot he's already sprinted for cover.

3. All those maps you've stated were meant to be used with vehicles.

4. If it doesn't increase speed, then what's the use of sprint? Why implant it if it doesn't give you the supposed benefit of "going faster"? Why not increase base speed like Halo 1-3 had?

5. Or you can just increase base speed like Halo 1-3 had, where you don't have to lower your weapon to "go fast" but instead have everyone be at a consistent speed. Which is essential in an arena shooter.

Also, it seems you are missing alot of points about sprint.

Here you go.
https://youtu.be/iedeG7SVPCE

And yes, you can enjoy Halo 5, but it isn't what you're enjoying.

[General_101]

Also, just because they didn't design maps with sprinting in mind, does not mean it won't play well... I played Halo Online Valhalla (which is essentially Halo 3 Valhalla) and sprint fit right in with the map and gameplay.

Someone hasn't played guardian or is conveniently ignoring it. You can say that it plays well but boy did it changed. Sprint doesn't fit in with the gameflow of H3 Valhalla but it does with Halo Online because it completely changed the pace. Both for the reason Mootjuh stated and with how sprint affects the strategies used in the game.

I personally believe all of the reasons you have stated such as health and dual wielding aren't as big as sprint. All of those mostly just affect the flow and pace but sprint changes the flow, pace, and structure of the maps. You can't have 16 players in a place like guardian because it gets too chaotic and changes the pace of the game by a lot. Have 16 people running around and 1 dude running around with a gravity hammer. You can really dominate since you were never meant to go as fast as you can in Halo Online on that map. You can argue that you could do this in H3 but I see sprinting making the problem worse and merely rushing is becoming more of a common tactic instead of the team based gameplay I was used to seeing.

[Mootjuh]

Plus since when should you even lower your weapon in an arena shooter?

[SilentGamer64]

-snip-

1. None of the stuff you listed is cheap, they are all advantages on the map that need to be earned. If sprint stopped being a default base player trait and turned into a map pickup like speed boost, it wouldn't be nearly as unbalanced.

2. That's the dilemma though. If you keep shooting him, he'll eventually turn around a corner and then your kill is lost. If you run after him, not only are you putting your gun down, but you're buying the enemy time to continue running until either his shields recharge, or he hides behind his teammates who will then blast you into oblivion when you run into them.

3. Like Moot said, all those maps are vehicle-based. You also had a pistol that functioned like a mini-sniper, so those maps also promoted long range combat for more variety beyond smaller maps like battle creek and chill out where closer ranged combat was more common.

4. If they weren't moving much faster they wouldn't be using it in the first place as it gives a massive disadvantage to the user by forcing them to lower their gun. Clearly there's a significant advantage that warrants its use.

5. If I made a gametype in Reach where everyone had Armor Lock at all times, would you consider it balanced? It's not necessarily the equal starting that's the problem, it's what you're starting with.

I could say both Halo 4 and 5 are taking more from COD than they should. Halo 4 shoehorned in loadouts, killstreaks, default sprint, and flinch. Halo 5 took loadouts out of the arena part of the game, but left them in Warzone with additional skins/attachments for each weapon. Killstreaks seem to have been removed, but they were replaced with micro-transaction REQ cards that are exclusive to Warzone only. Default sprint was left in, and was given unlimited use. And flinch was removed because people wanted descope back, but then they went ahead and completely changed Halo's scoping mechanics into a disgusting ADS hybrid. They gave the BR a fucking red dot sight FFS.

[P3]

1. Explain to me how sprinting was not done right. Did you want the person you were fighting to not be able to ever get away or do anything to prevent their death? Is that when you will say sprinting "iz guud", because you could kill him? People should probably also be complaining about Halo's jump height and stuff too then, because, "Oh man. Halo's jump height sux because everytime I try to melee someone, they jump up so high that I missed and then he killz me. He should have been my kill!" Or "Oh man. Halo's jump height sux because everytime I get a gud aim at him with mah BR or Sniper, he jumps out of the way.

2. Moot, I was already using that video as base the argument >.>

Oh? Then maybe they should not have designed those maps for vehicles, or teleporters then. You know. Like how they shouldn't have designed some maps for sprint.  Because some people might take advantage of those and break gameplay and balance. "Oh man. I almost killed him but he went into a teleporter and teleported away, and when I went after him through the teleporter, his team and him were there and killed me~... D:"

Or

"Oh man. I almost killed the guy with the flag, but he got in a warthog and drove away. Oh how this map is so big. What am I to do. All of the vehicles are gone so I can't catch up or have any chance to stop him... :C"

Also, notice how you said relied heavily on teleporters? Maybe they wouldn't have to rely so heavily on them or vehicles if you know... They could sprint. ;)

See. It's just how you play. If you are only complaining because you had your chance but he got away, you miss, or you were just dumb enough to blindly chase him down to enemy territory, that is your fault.

___________
Edit: Directed towards Moot

[Mootjuh]

1. Jumping while in an encounter is mostly bad for you as you can't move as freely as before. And melee acts like a magnet once you've hit B when in range. And looking up or down to melee the guy is not as skilless as running away. It really is a bad comparison. And sprinting in itself can't be done right in Halo, you freaking lower your weapon.

2. Too bad you don't sprint 100% of the time, so teleporters is much more consistent. And teleporters are not everywhere. Besides, you can easily find him again in most maps if you have a long ranged weapon. Which if you were to have a short ranged weapon you would be so close already you can follow him in the teleporter directly to take him out before he can ambush you.

And sprint is a replacement for vehicles and teleporters now? Sweet let's take those out and make the game look more than CoD. That's where map design comes in, we have warthogs for 3 freaking people and sbipers and lasers than can wreck those vehicles. Besides, what the hell are you gonna do sprinting behind a warthog? You can't shoot and while sprinting the gunner is probably taking you out. Therefore sprinting to chase the hog won't work anyway making sprint useless in that situation.

Basically what you are saying is add sprint so devs can be lazy on map design. And because you can't have people make sprint only in that particular spot you will end up with an unbalanced map where there are scenarios where the map expects you to sprint but you aren't and vice versa.

[Neesy]

>TFW you hate sprint in Halo but don't give a shit anymore because you've moved on from Halo

[P3]

1. What are you talking about? Jumping in an encounter is one of the best ways to avoid getting meleed or hit. Not as effective the farther the shooting attacker is though, unless they are scope zoomed in.

2. Well, why don't you just follow the guy who is running away around the corner and shoot him?You usually can't find him right about the time that he gets away again unless you follow him through the teleporter, he goes back through it, or you happen to meet him somewhere in the map again but that wouldn't really matter anymore because he already got away when you wanted to kill him the last time.

And I never said sprint is a replacement. Also, what am I going to do sprinting behind a warthog? I would try to highjack them of course.

Oh, so now it is lazy of a dev to design maps for sprint but not for vehicles or teleporters? Great logic.
I find for devs to design maps for teleporters to be waaaay lazier then for them to design for sprint. If you disagree with that, I don't know what you are thinking

And because you can't have people make vehicle only in that particular spot you will end up with an unbalanced map where there are scenarios where the map expects you to use vehicles but you can't and vice versa.

If you say "Uh, but they can make vehicles in a particullar spot."
Well, "Uh, yeah, but you can't put it everywhere or it would look like a clusterfuck of randomly placed vehicles and lazily designed map.

Go play Infinity on Halo one and then come back and tell me how things went when everyone takes all of the vehicles. Lots of long walking. (Yes I know there are teleporters on that map)

[Neesy]

Dude nobody in these forums likes anything from 343 NOTHING they don't care about anything related to halo post Bungie!

except for me and Lolslayer.....

1 down 1 to go

[TheAandZ]

lolslayer was extremely reactionary and annoying. Let's not mention him again plz?

Here's one good thing that came out of 343's Halo:
H2A's cutscenes (but you can argue that it was blur's work with Bungie's original foundations I guess)

[General_101]

1. What are you talking about? Jumping in an encounter is one of the best ways to avoid getting meleed or hit. Not as effective the farther the shooting attacker is though, unless they are scope zoomed in.

2. Well, why don't you just follow the guy who is running away around the corner and shoot him?You usually can't find him right about the time that he gets away again unless you follow him through the teleporter, he goes back through it, or you happen to meet him somewhere in the map again but that wouldn't really matter anymore because he already got away when you wanted to kill him the last time.

And I never said sprint is a replacement. Also, what am I going to do sprinting behind a warthog? I would try to highjack them of course.

Oh, so now it is lazy of a dev to design maps for sprint but not for vehicles or teleporters? Great logic.
I find for devs to design maps for teleporters to be waaaay lazier then for them to design for sprint. If you disagree with that, I don't know what you are thinking

And because you can't have people make vehicle only in that particular spot you will end up with an unbalanced map where there are scenarios where the map expects you to use vehicles but you can't and vice versa.

If you say "Uh, but they can make vehicles in a particullar spot."
Well, "Uh, yeah, but you can't put it everywhere or it would look like a clusterfuck of randomly placed vehicles and lazily designed map.

Go play Infinity on Halo one and then come back and tell me how things went when everyone takes all of the vehicles. Lots of long walking. (Yes I know there are teleporters on that map)

Infinity is a terrible example. It is a PC exclusive map and is part of a rumor that Halo MP at one point was supposed to be 32 players. Infinity is at best a gimmick for the PC port.

lolslayer was extremely reactionary and annoying. Let's not mention him again plz?

Here's one good thing that came out of 343's Halo:
H2A's cutscenes (but you can argue that it was blur's work with Bungie's original foundations I guess)

I will agree that the cutscences were rather nice.

[R93_Sniper]

Infinity WAS a pc exclusive, no longer is as of MCC. Either way it was a great map, much fun.

[TheAandZ]

What you stated there is pure preference, but even if you don't like it, CoD is a game with solid mechanics that works well for the gameplay its aiming for. So good other games try to copy its mechanics. Aka Halo 5.

It may be pure preference, but if you can name one of the major differences between Halo games and CoD games, it's ttk.

Also, I'm not trying to incite animosity here, but basically every post on these forums that debate 343/H5's 'goodness' are pretty much preference driven themselves, no real argument to whether anything is objectively better or not, (which rarely anything is anyway).

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