Emulation General

Hello there!
Since there has mostly been dead silence around here I wanted to talk about the past, current, and future projects related to one of my favorite past times, Emulation! This post will inform those who do not know what these programs are and want to relive their childhood without going through the trouble of paying over a hundred dollars for a NES console because the people at the garage sale say so.

Lets first explain what an emulator is. Google puts it like this!
In computing, an emulator is hardware or software that enables one computer system (called the host) to behave like another computer system (called the guest). An emulator typically enables the host system to run software or use peripheral devices designed for the guest system.
In more simple terms it is essentially making object A act like object B to do stuff native to object B.
Secondly, emulators themselves are not illegal. Emulators are only illegal when the information acquired in order to learn more about the hardware comes from sources such as but not limited to leaked schematics, exploited trade secrets, and misusing devkits. Games that you want to get can still be acquried legally and is different based on consoles but for example for a Wii using a certain CD drive can allow you to rip the ISO from an actual disc that you have purchased. Downloading a game for a console is illegal even if you have purchased it and currently posses it. It should be said though that no one has gone to court from my knowledge for downloading ROMs(Game files)

We are now going to go over some common consoles played by people and the programs I think you should look into.

NES - PuNES - http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?t=6928
This program is the main one I use to replay old NES games I loved back then or have seen other people play. Lots of option to play around for people who are interested

SNES - Higan - http://byuu.org/emulation/higan/
A perfect program to emulate the Super Nintendo. it is very accurate to the point where it can be used to play really most games without problems. The SNES part of this emulator is the only worthwhile part so I would recommend going elsewhere for emulation of other systems and use this solely for the SNES.

PlayStation 1 - Mednafen PSX - http://mednafen.fobby.net/
                              PCSX-Reloaded - https://pcsxr.codeplex.com/
The PlayStation emulation scene is a bit of a mess but none the less has great programs to allow you to play classics on the PS1. I list two to fill in whatever fills your taste which will be listed below.
MEDNAFEN is an extremely accurate emulator even outdoing Sony's official emulator in accuracy tests.
PCSX-Reloaded while not as accurate does allow upscaling which Mednafen does not. On top of the PCSX-Reloaded can be customized to fix issues on the original PS1 such as the one shown here.
Without Hack
With Hack
It up to you to choose whether you want prettier graphics or proper emulation.
PlayStation 2 - PCSX2 - http://pcsx2.net/
While not the best it could have been it is a very good answer to the call of PS2 emulation. There are more accurate options coming soon such as Play! but for now this is the only emulator for PS2 worth using.

GameBoy Advanced - VBA-M - http://vba-m.com/
A well rounded emulator for those that wish to play the Game Boy. It can even run original Game Boy games and Game Boy Color.

Nintendo 64 - Mupen64Plus - http://www.mupen64plus.org/
                             Project64 - http://www.pj64-emu.com/
Another tragedy for the emulation scene but what came from the ashes is good enough. The situation is similar to PS1 where Mupen64Plus is accuracy focused but Project64 allows proper upscaling and gives plenty of hacks to make games widescreen and such although not accurate and can have problems. Keep in mind that the main installer for Project64 has bloatware that you have to deny and has been accused of carrying malware to choose what you will. You can find a portable version of the program around the web that does not come in an installer.

Nintendo DS - DeSmuME - http://desmume.org/
The only worthwhile emulator for the DS in the scene as it will run a variety of games without problems.

Wii - Dolphin - https://dolphin-emu.org/
The best and only Wii emulator currently out there in a usable state. The inception of this emulator is itself a miracle with it's 20+ dev team and incredible focus on accuracy while still allowing options like upscaling and various hacks to make things easier on the user. A true model of the scene that I hope emulation developers aspire to.

That is all I am going to list for my own sanity but here is a wiki where you can find all sorts of things.
http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

The future of emulation.
The current projects during this time range from the original Xbox to the Wii U. Here is one video from work in progress display of emulators in the making. One even displays a game that was removed from the market and how we can use emulation to preserve it for the future.
Xenia - Xbox 360 Emulator

RPCS3 - PS3 Emulator

XQEMU - Original Xbox Emulator

CEMU - Wii U Emulator

Citra - 3DS Emulator

If you want more information you can send me a PM here or catch me on Skype in the Contingency chat. There is also Steam so feel free to add me if you want to ask something.
General_101 is my steam username
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198041863674

Well if this is a general discussion about emulators, I'm all for it, at least the technical side. I probably won't understand anything should someone explain it to me, but maybe I'll get lucky and I can get by understanding with some hexadecimal and Z80 ASM knowledge.

If this is a discussion about retro video games, I'm also all for that. And for the record, I use Nestopia as an NES emulator, and ZSNES as a snes emulator. I use ZSNES because sness are too expensive to buy and all the neato games I haven't played before are rare and $100+ - Earthbound, Megaman X, Chrono trigger, super mario rpg etc. and I use Nestopia because there was this one time I needed Jim's walking sprites from hydlide so I screencapped them and edited out the crap in MSPAINT.

Also you listed NO GENESIS EMULATOR WHAT KIND OF A THREAD IS THIS FORGETTING TO MENTION THAT MASTERPIECE although I must admit I picked my genesis up over the summer off of ebay for $6 ($16 including shipping) so it's not exactly the kind of investment as literally every other retro console out there (besides 2600s). There are 20 or so different internal configurations for genesises (genesi?) though so emulation might be a better guarantee if you're going for quality.

I must admit I was going to put a Sega Genesis link since it makes everything go full circle and one of my favorite games is on it which is Castlevania Bloodlines. I did eventually put it on there but when I was about to submit I accidentally hit backspace and went back a page so I lost it all. There was a lot more info on the first draft. It's stupidly easy to setup that emulator and I left a link to the wiki with a list of all the information we have.

This is a discussion for both topics from the technical info to just talking about good old games.

I have been using VBA-M to play Wario Land 4 recently. Still have fun with it years after playing it when I was only 12. I personally prefer emulation due to how much better it can often be. There are hacks for Mario Sunshine to run at 60 FPS and it runs without issues mostly. Not to mention mods like Project M for Smash on the Wii.

No PSP emulator?

okay...

RockMetal&Time wrote:No PSP emulator?

okay...

Same as above.
:P

I personally use snes-9x for snes games. Everything works really well from my experience.

For Dreamcast I use demul and for Genesis I use Fusion364

The only depressing thing about playing my childhood mega drive games on Fusion is that somehow I'm even worse at the games than I was when I was like 10.
Those save states tho. Life Savers.

General_101 wrote:I have been using VBA-M to play Wario Land 4 recently. Still have fun with it years after playing it when I was only 12. I personally prefer emulation due to how much better it can often be. There are hacks for Mario Sunshine to run at 60 FPS and it runs without issues mostly. Not to mention mods like Project M for Smash on the Wii.

Yeah, I played one of the earlier wario lands on a friend's gameboy during elementary school. It was only for a few minutes though and I can't remember it. My parents wouldn't ever buy me a gameboy, and when they finally decided to get me a ds, they got me a dsi because it was new at the time but in reality I would have chosen a ds lite so I could play dem gba gaems.

Emulation is definitely better if you're going for quality, but there's something special about playing games on the original hardware and pressing a cartridge into the system. I'd never play Dr. Mario on my PC on an emulator but playing it on my NES on my TV it just looks so silly to see mario dressed up like a doctor screwing you over with the wrong pills and blaming it on you when you die. Personally I only really use it to play expensive games for systems I have and any game for systems I don't. If I can get ahold of a copy of Super Mario Sunshine I'd just play it on my wii and borrow a gamecube controller or buy my own, and if I can't handle the framerate then there's always emulation.

New video showing Wii U emulation.

Also Payday 2 is pulling a CS:GO but double the cancer with their pay2win style crates. Going to go pull a paid mods controversy on their ***.
In other words some of you are all right. Don't go to Overkill's HQ tomorrow if you live in the area. /s
[insert dank pepe here]

Best thread on this forum imo (below my shitposts ofc)

Stevedoggen wrote:The only depressing thing about playing my childhood mega drive games on Fusion is that somehow I'm even worse at the games than I was when I was like 10.
Those save states tho. Life Savers.

same.. :'(

torrenting != piracy

We get your drift but seriously there's nothing wrong with the data-moving method of torrenting.

Torrenting is just Peer to Peer file transfers. Emulation is just a way to play games from a console on PC in an easier way. Most (I think all, actually) emulators require an actual BIOS from the console, which is why they are not illegal. Those BIOS files are unique and can only be obtained from the actual console, unless somebody transfers them to you which is illegal (but most people don't/cant care)

DreuxPhoenix wrote:I believe that Emulators have their ups and downs. It is great to be able to play a classic game for a system that is hard to come by or you just simply cannot get to work. But it is kinda wrong when they make an emulator for the current generation of Consoles and PC games that came out withing the past year or two. Making an emulator for the most recent games is kinda like you are torrenting the game... piracy for those who don't know what torrent is.

I'm pretty sure if the companies noticed emulators hurting their sales too much they wouldn't be around at all anyway.

Well, I'm not sure it's right to call it 'emulating' on a PC when the game is for PC. It's just straight piracy, that's all. As for emulating current gen, yeah no. They haven't even got a reasonably stable 360/ps3 one working yet, let alone Xbone/PS4

Stevedoggen wrote:Well, I'm not sure it's right to call it 'emulating' on a PC when the game is for PC. It's just straight piracy, that's all. As for emulating current gen, yeah no. They haven't even got a reasonably stable 360/ps3 one working yet, let alone Xbone/PS4

Depends on what you are emulating and why. Would you buy a shitty port with no effort put into it or just emulate it? This is the case with Metal Gear Solid on PC where the PS1 version emulated instead of just buying the PC version is much better. Even if you did go out and buy a PS1 and an actual copy of Metal Gear Solid (Which can be above 60 dollars in some cases) you are still not paying the original makers of the game. All you did was exchange money to some stranger who happened to be around when it was out.

Even for new games I would argue that it isn't a big deal. If a PC gamer who didn't own the original console he wishes to emulate was willing to wait years for a potential emulator to come out and years more to get it just right do you think he would have bought said console anyways? There wasn't even a potential sale in that camp. Remember that Wii emulation took 8 years to get to where it is now and in the first 4 years it was a buggy piece of shit with most Wii games that were obscure not booting because more focus was made on popular titles working and even those had issues. Not to mention in order to legally play games on an emulator you have to rip ISOs from your game discs that you have bought which is legal in most countries.

An emulator is not a morally or legally questionable thing due to the potential of piracy which is a ridiculous argument to make unless you think all hardware is bad because it has the potential to be used for nefarious purposes. I'm not saying piracy is ok but if the first thing you worry about when it comes to emulation is piracy you are missing the point of emulation.

I still emulate my old DOS games because my computer can no longer run them natively. I want that part of my childhood to live on, are you denying me that right steve?

What? No, you guys are reading more into what I said than was actually intended lol.

As to what I said, I didn't mean 'ye olde' games that don't work anymore, that's different to normal titles that are still relatively new and compatible. Emulating implies the game wasn't bought through normal means, which tends to mean it was pirated, regardless of the circumstances.

I'd say that it should be fine to download games and emulators for consoles that are discontinued, such as N64, Genesis, DOS, whatever.

Yeah I dunno I had something in mind when I wrote that last statement, it escapes me this morning,

Stevedoggen wrote:What? No, you guys are reading more into what I said than was actually intended lol.

As to what I said, I didn't mean 'ye olde' games that don't work anymore, that's different to normal titles that are still relatively new and compatible. Emulating implies the game wasn't bought through normal means, which tends to mean it was pirated, regardless of the circumstances.

I'd say that it should be fine to download games and emulators for consoles that are discontinued, such as N64, Genesis, DOS, whatever.

Yeah I dunno I had something in mind when I wrote that last statement, it escapes me this morning,

Did you not read what I said? Emulation does not imply that a title was downloaded. If you buy a product do you not believe you are entitled to make a backup if possible? That is what you are doing with emulation. Do you believe most PC gamers just download their games because they are clicks away? I will have you know that there is a group of individuals in the emulation community that will harass you if you do not acquire your ROMs through legit means. Btw my post wasn't just for you but more of a general statement for everyone here saying that emulation is synonymous with piracy.

Sorry I was inclass at uni multitasking and miss-read your comment.
I now understand what you mean, though I disagree, so I suppose your comment probably ought to be directed to me.

General_101 wrote: Do you believe most PC gamers just download their games because they are clicks away?

Yes. Yes I do. That's the entire mentality behind piracy. Who would go to trouble of obtaining it all legally and setting all that crap up when you can just download a few small zips and be on your way?

As for being harassed by the community, once you have what you came for, you don't stay for the community. Why would you? You'd only stay if you were passionate, and if you're passionate, you'd have bought the bloody thing legitimately.

I know emulation can be done legitimately.I know it can be off a disk and downloading isn't the only way, I worded my comment poorly. I know you can do it the right way.
But people don't do it the right way. Hardly anyone does. And hardly anyone cares either way, regardless of whether or not that content is old as hell.
That is why it is synonymous with piracy. The vast majority outstrip the morally superior minority.

Stevedoggen wrote:
Yes. Yes I do. That's the entire mentality behind piracy. Who would go to trouble of obtaining it all legally and setting all that crap up when you can just download a few small zips and be on your way?

I would, as do many many others. The PC community is generally moral, and even if piracy does happen, it's not really big enough to make an impact. Many devs just use piracy as an excuse to get away with neglecting the PC specifically in terms of quality of services (*cough* Ubisoft *cough*).

It's a lot easier to download a few zips than download an iso, burn it to a disc and patch it somehow so the console won't see it as a copy.

That's true, I'm not denying that pirating happens. I'm saying that a majority of PC gamers wouldn't (I hope) stoop to that level.

EDIT: I'm talking about pirating modern/new games here, not emulation. I'm torn on the subject of emulation.