Re: Dedicated Halo 5 Thread

by TheAandZ November 3rd 2015, 12:50 am

Next time I feel like it would turn out a lot better if 343 actually made what the story was advertised as.

Yea..
That would be a lot better...

by Stevedoggen November 3rd 2015, 1:59 am

TheAandZ wrote:Next time I feel like it would turn out a lot better if 343 actually made what the story was advertised as.

by **Mootjuh** November 3rd 2015, 4:32 am

You can't integrate future content into a review. If Halo 5 goes from a 6 to an 8 by including dlc then all previous Halos get a 10 if you include their DLC.

But that's not the issue, the issue is DLC never revived a dead population in Halo. By the time Forge releases, Halo 5 already died.

by Neesy November 3rd 2015, 6:06 am

Original trilogy basic plot moving crap no fucking human drama

And still holds up more than the current imo. I've felt more for Jenkins than I've ever fwlt for any H4+ character

by Stevedoggen November 3rd 2015, 11:34 am

Original trilogy basic plot moving crap no fucking human drama

My impressions from the game are a bit different.
From where I saw it, the game didn't have enough Original Trilogy Basic Plot moving and too much underbaked and tedious human drama.

Chief and Locke fisticuffs? I laughed not sure if it was serious the first time, because the reason for the fist fight was so bare bones it's irritating.
Locke says to stop and that he's taking control of a personal situation for the chief.
Chief says no.
Chief and Locke rumble.
Chief wins and leaves.

That's not an interesting feud. That doesn't develop anything character wise for either character other than making Chief look like an asshole for not even trying to talk it out.

Cortana has understood human morals no issue up to this point then now doesn't for some reason. Maybe it's an intentional plot point for a reason? Certainly not in this games campaign though. Just annoys you that she's being a nob the whole time. There's no mystery around her actions, they're explained as light as day with nothing to the imagination. Bah.

They kill off Jul in a cutscene right at the start, even though they could have attached some kind of reason for his actions to make interesting plot development, but no let's kill off a character that made Spartan Ops a pain in a way that provides no satisfaction for your effort.

They even make the Arbiter situation weird. If they explained what is going on, then the Arbiter's an nob for not even trying to help. If they didn't explain, then the Arbiter's fine and the human's are assholes for not explaining the gravity properly.

wtf happened to Halsey being furious with Palmer about the arm thing?
wtf happened to Halsey's revenge?
wtf happened to the Janis key halves?

Then there's the whole fact that this game is jarring for people like me who don't want to buy and separately read fucking comics and books, and would rather the game recap or some shit. Make some missions that covered what happened, because it would appeal to both those who did and didn't read it.

But no, let's ditch all plot, make a new one that barely holds together, run a totally misleading advertising campaign and lather whatever comes out in poor character decisions that leave the player like 'why would you even?'.

/uncalled-for rant

by Neesy November 3rd 2015, 2:34 pm

That's not an interesting feud. That doesn't develop anything character wise for either character other than making Chief look like an asshole for not even trying to talk it out.

Pretty sure everyone in the PC skype chat can vouch that I've made this very clear lmfao, ranted on this a shit ton

by Stevedoggen November 3rd 2015, 9:22 pm

Sorry to reiterate your point, I hardly read the skype chat m8.

by **R93_Sniper** November 3rd 2015, 9:47 pm

As a member of the chat i can vouch for both Neesy and Steve. This post is R93 Approved

by SilentGamer64 November 4th 2015, 1:10 am

Wait, we have a Skype chat? How did I not know this?

by **R93_Sniper** November 4th 2015, 2:30 pm

Because you didnt read the r00lz (or the one thread that talked about it and twitter prolly)

by SilentGamer64 November 7th 2015, 1:15 pm

So I watched this today and totally thought of Halo 5:

So true though. And the fact that Mario Maker is a thing really makes you wonder if people really want their favorite games changing so much, or if they just want to make minor changes/new levels while keeping the gameplay fairly similar to the original games.

by Heatguts November 7th 2015, 3:37 pm

I've never had a problem with games being "too similiar" to their predecessors, usually. Changing things up and adding things is fine, but changing something too much might turn someone off entirely. Personally, I think the mario franchise is getting rather stale, but that's because there's too little change. All they usually do is swap out the current flight suit for another flight suit (raccoon -> cape -> helicopter -> squirrel) and it's rather repetitive. They could do something like add ways to attack besides projectiles and jumping on someone's head, like maybe a powerup that grants a dash attack or something, but changing the moveset so much that you have to design the core levels too differently probably means you changed too much.

I want the same basic experience, but I want new tools, and new playspaces to experience it in. Add in some temporary new abilities that aren't going to stick around, and let me be able to play with or without them as I please. Adding powerups to a mario game doesn't really mean the experience changes - you can just choose not to pick up those powerups. Eliminating mario's ability to jump on enemies and adding a hand-to-hand combat system is too much of a change, because you can't play the old way anymore. If you wanted to implement something like that and still call it a mario game, you'd have to keep all the current attacks, have a way to switch to a fighting-game-style form of combat, and have the enemies not change the way the behave unless they can tell you are using the fighting-game-style system. In H5 this is manifested in the forcing in of different spartan abilities and sprint, along with things like the power weapon timers. You can turn off sprint, but the rest of these also affect the gameplay and as such I should be able to toggle them off and play matches where they are all toggled off in matchmaking, campaign, etc.

You could also do what treyarch did from whichever modern warfare came before blops and add (or in this case, expand really) a new mode that you don't have to play, but that keeps the same physics and methods of interacting with the world and put it in a different setting with different goals and let the player make of it what they will. If we're going to compare it to H5, that'd be add both warzone and btb (which they are eventually doing) (maps for that btw are all created in forge and while I'm super psyched headlong is in the lineup it looks like crap because it was made in forge and the roads look like the were ripped from unturned) (I can smell the effort 343).

by SilentGamer64 November 7th 2015, 7:42 pm

They actually kinda did have a Mario game with fighting attacks with Super Mario 64. They scrapped it in Sunshine for the FLUDD thing and then brought it back in Mario Galaxy in the form of the spin move. Not sure if Mario 3D World counts, but the cat suit let you punch/paw enemies too. All those games were great, but none of them really stuck as well popularity-wise compared to the tried and true side scrolling platformer, which is probably why the most recent 3D World was basically made as a hybrid of the 2D and 3D Mario games. And with Mario Maker being a thing, I have no idea what else they could possibly do with Mario now, since new levels alone are redundant unless there's new items or movement controls implemented.

See, the thing with Treyarch is that they would put out both the established and the experimental game modes at launch. 343's handling of Warzone and BTB just makes it look like they're trying to shove something new down fans' throats (and in the absence of a fan favorite gamemode) regardless of whether or not it's any good. And don't even get me started on the microtransaction BS. "Play our new gamemode, and GIVE US MOAR MUHNEE!!!"

The fact that all BTB maps are being forged really shows just how much 343 went balls deep with Warzone, to the point where they had no time to make maps for a game mode that is expected to be available at launch by Halo fans in this day and age. And can anyone tell me for certain why forge got delayed? Because I was under the impression that the forge team was an entirely separate entity from the matchmaking team. Other than maybe designing the forge canvas levels, there shouldn't have been that many resources taken out of forge that resulted in it being a 2 month post-launch patch.

The game industry is a total mess nowadays. I miss buying games with expectations on what it will deliver, and then being pleasantly surprised when it exceeds my expectations. I don't really get that luxury anymore.

by Heatguts November 8th 2015, 12:58 am

SilentGamer64 wrote:They actually kinda did have a Mario game with fighting attacks with Super Mario 64. They scrapped it in Sunshine for the FLUDD thing and then brought it back in Mario Galaxy in the form of the spin move. Not sure if Mario 3D World counts, but the cat suit let you punch/paw enemies too. All those games were great, but none of them really stuck as well popularity-wise compared to the tried and true side scrolling platformer, which is probably why the most recent 3D World was basically made as a hybrid of the 2D and 3D Mario games. And with Mario Maker being a thing, I have no idea what else they could possibly do with Mario now, since new levels alone are redundant unless there's new items or movement controls implemented.

Yeah, except as far as 64/sunshine/galaxy goes I consider them mario games in name alone. Super Mario 64 had an interesting hub world, open-ended level designs, multiple objectives that you could complete even if you had picked a different one at the star select screen, and variety, so much variety. Swapping between any of the different paintings is such a scene change, not just a mere pallet swap like the platformers. Some of the worlds had unique gimmicks like the toxic maze, the one where the water went up and down, the one where everything was slick (both of them, there were two like that iirc). Others just felt neat - like the submarine base, the clock tower, the mountain one in particular had a wierd sense of chivalry to it as the objectives were always near the top and you had to retread the same path again and again. And as far as I'm concerned Jolly Roger Bay is the most peaceful place ever conceived. The enemies usually changed two - and not just a little but some levels had no goombas and only bullies and whomps were only in that one level iirc - as opposed to 2D mario where you have your staple goombas, koopas and piranha plants, and maybe one or two level specific enemies.

I never played sunshine, but galaxy just felt like they wanted to make a super mario 64 game in space, but they forgot to make the levels open-ended and didn't include enough secondary objectives, instead opting to create more (semi) unique galaxies. The secondary objectives were usually variants of "collect this many coins" or "beat the level while being followed by invincible copies of yourself" and got stale really quick. The galaxies themselves weren't super memorable either - besides that one with the pterodactyls that you got to fly. They were either icy, tropical, desert, or 3d versions of the regular mario games except with the ground being giant square blocks or a sphere. The hub wasn't all that great either, it wasn't really explorable as once you'd run over mario's face once you'd been over it a million times. The M64 ambience wasn't there either, which really pulled the castle courtyard together for me.

The point is, these games are quite different from regular mario, and it's not just because they're 3d. Sonic's levels are actually a lot more akin to M64's levels. They have upper and lower paths meaning that unless you're mlgpro or boring your second playthrough of the level in a row will be slightly different, and swapping zones comes in with more changes than a pallet swap. Something like the second act of sandopolis or aquatic ruin zone change up the game a lot - you're constantly on a timer in sandopolis, and in aquatic ruin if you fall to the lower path you're in for a lot less fun so it matters a lot more to stay on the top and be careful. Obviously comparing 2d sonics to 3d marios is a bit of a stretch but you can at least see what I'm getting at hopefully.

SilentGamer64 wrote:
See, the thing with Treyarch is that they would put out both the established and the experimental game modes at launch. 343's handling of Warzone and BTB just makes it look like they're trying to shove something new down fans' throats (and in the absence of a fan favorite gamemode) regardless of whether or not it's any good. And don't even get me started on the microtransaction BS. "Play our new gamemode, and GIVE US MOAR MUHNEE!!!"

Yeah, my point is, Treyarch handles it a lot better. 343's really dropping the ball, and even if the game was like bungie halo if they pulled this "no btb" stunt they'd still be screwing up. Treyarch's games may see less overall changes with each iteration but they don't force the changes down everyone's throat.

SilentGamer64 wrote:
The fact that all BTB maps are being forged really shows just how much 343 went balls deep with Warzone, to the point where they had no time to make maps for a game mode that is expected to be available at launch by Halo fans in this day and age. And can anyone tell me for certain why forge got delayed? Because I was under the impression that the forge team was an entirely separate entity from the matchmaking team. Other than maybe designing the forge canvas levels, there shouldn't have been that many resources taken out of forge that resulted in it being a 2 month post-launch patch.

Yeah, they're just ticking bullets off a list. "Yeah, H5 has btb, but we didn't really care about it so if you'd rather play something we tried on there's always warzone..." and if anyone can tell me how this looks anything like valhalla - obviously the spire is missing but that's not really important to gameplay a whole lot so I can see them dropping it but...

Spoiler:

Headlong, just for kicks if you haven't seen it

Spoiler:

SilentGamer64 wrote:
The game industry is a total mess nowadays. I miss buying games with expectations on what it will deliver, and then being pleasantly surprised when it exceeds my expectations. I don't really get that luxury anymore.

Agreed. That's why I still buy nes and genesis games.

by **R93_Sniper** November 8th 2015, 1:09 am

Heatguts wrote:
Spoiler:

Please kill me now. HOW THE HELL DO YOU MAKE HEADLONG LOOK LIKE A GODDAMN LEGO MAP?!!!!!

by TheAandZ November 8th 2015, 2:56 am

It looks unfinished... wtf

by **Mootjuh** November 8th 2015, 2:59 am

And people thought Halo 5 will be saved once Forge returns.

Nomatter how creative you will be the maps will look freaking ugly.

by Neesy November 8th 2015, 8:54 am

The Real Halo 5 Headlong...:

by Neesy November 8th 2015, 8:56 am

R93_Sniper wrote:
Heatguts wrote:
Spoiler:

Please kill me now. HOW THE HELL DO YOU MAKE HEADLONG LOOK LIKE A GODDAMN LEGO MAP?!!!!!

>Artistic Direction

by Stevedoggen November 8th 2015, 1:51 pm

Neesy wrote:
R93_Sniper wrote:
Heatguts wrote:
Spoiler:

Please kill me now. HOW THE HELL DO YOU MAKE HEADLONG LOOK LIKE A GODDAMN LEGO MAP?!!!!!

>*Autistic Direction

by SilentGamer64 November 8th 2015, 2:00 pm

^ That might be taking it a little too far...

I agree, Headlong looks like it was built with Legos.

And the overall layout of Valhalla seems so wrong. There doesn't appear to be any kind of hill in the center, unless that sad looking rock formation in the middle is supposed to be the hill. There's also a large 2 story structure in the background that doesn't even look like it belongs there. Are you sure this is even Valhalla?

I guess 343 still haven't figured out how to do pallet swaps yet, so every piece still has UNSC written all over it. Seriously, changing colors is nice, but actual forge pieces with different themes like intricate forerunner patterns or the hexagonal textures of covenant structures would have been even better. Having the option between Reach's forerunner forge objects + H4's UNSC forge objects + H2A's natural forge objects + Some sort of covenant forge object pallet = the best forge pallet. Throw in some flood biomass objects as a bonus, and you're set to make virtually any Halo themed map you could possibly dream of. Changing the colors of Halo 5's forge pieces doesn't change the fact that the entire forge pallet is still all UNSC themed pieces.

by Heatguts November 8th 2015, 6:05 pm

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/big-team-battle-coming-to-halo-5-guardians-in-next-update
IGN thinks so

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/november-sneak-peek
Waypoint thinks so

I haven't seen any more outlets that have covered it that know crap about games (saw one try to pass Standoff off as a "Halo: Combat Evolved classic")

by TheAandZ November 9th 2015, 11:33 pm

Compare these maps to what 343 is releasing. The art-style was wonderful in the reach maps, while H5 has these weird objects that seem like they lack texture.

Also can I just say that I love these old Halo adverts? None of these retarded sounding narrators like in the Locke armor ad or the painful music choice in the H5 launch trailer.

by Stevedoggen November 10th 2015, 1:02 am

I was watching a R.U.L video a while back when the H5G beta was on, and he was talking about how he thought Reach forge maps were ugly and quite grey and bland in colour, but 5's is great and colourful.
I laughed because from a glance you can tell just how much more interesting Reach's forge pieces look compared to 5's standard forge parts we see in Orion, for example.
Admittedly, this is a beta image of Orion but from what I see ingame, the textures haven't changed much if at all.

Dedicated Halo 5 Thread - Page 30 2776481-orion1

Dedicated Halo 5 Thread - Page 30 2776481-orion1

Dedicated Halo 5 Thread - Page 30 The-cage2

by **Mootjuh** November 10th 2015, 1:25 am

Should have just taken those templates, redo them to work with PBR(and thus not have that freaking ugly Forerunner material in H5) and apply some Parqllax Occlusion mapping.

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